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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:05 pm
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Posts: 1915Location: Bristol, UKJoined: 27th Dec, 2007
Some interesting Ryko AU20 CDRs have appeared on eBay and they contain information that should be noted here. The seller (ex Ryko) says there were only 3 copies of each disc, one for Bowie, one for the producer and a back-up.

eBay

And after the auctions end:

here

Young Americans:
Remastered twice, but only the revised remaster was released.
Attachment:
americans.revised.jpg
americans.revised.jpg [ 18.94 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
americans.revised.rear.jpg
americans.revised.rear.jpg [ 38.29 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
americans.jpg
americans.jpg [ 20.4 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
americans.rear.jpg
americans.rear.jpg [ 36.88 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]


Low:
The bonus tracks weren't remastered for the AU20 as they were only available as 16 bit recordings:
Attachment:
low.jpg
low.jpg [ 32.06 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
low.rear.jpg
low.rear.jpg [ 42.57 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]


Heroes:
Attachment:
heroes.jpg
heroes.jpg [ 20.26 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
heroes.rear.jpg
heroes.rear.jpg [ 38.23 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]


ChangesBowie:
Tracks 15-18 weren't remastered for the AU20 as they were only available as 16 bit recordings:
Attachment:
changes.jpg
changes.jpg [ 17.35 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]

Attachment:
changes.rear.jpg
changes.rear.jpg [ 40.07 KiB | Viewed 845 times ]


_________________
Alan


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:27 pm
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Posts: 15Joined: 28th Mar, 2008
I purchased the first Young Americans AU20 CD-R Master (1/15/97), which supposedly went unreleased. The seller believes the second AU20 CD-R Master (2/97) was used in the final release.

I have not had a chance to listen to the CD - I don't own the AU20 release anyway, so I can't validate that this is a unique master. I did rip the CD with EAC and ran a dynamic range analysis using TT-DR. The disk was *not* present in the AccurateRip database.

Does anyone have similar dynamic range/EAC results for the released AU20 Young Americans CD?

Here are the results from the dynamic range analysis:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR10 -0.10 dB -12.21 dB 01. Young Americans.wav
DR10 -1.65 dB -13.64 dB 02. Win.wav
DR10 -0.10 dB -11.60 dB 03. Fascination.wav
DR11 -0.10 dB -12.88 dB 04. Right.wav
DR9 -0.10 dB -11.13 dB 05. Somebody Up There Likes Me.wav
DR9 -0.10 dB -11.58 dB 06. Across The Universe.wav
DR11 -0.10 dB -13.12 dB 07. Can You Hear Me.wav
DR12 -0.10 dB -15.00 dB 08. Fame.wav
DR11 -0.10 dB -12.98 dB 09. Who Can I Be Now.wav
DR12 -0.10 dB -15.09 dB 10. It's Gonna Be Me.wav
DR10 -0.20 dB -12.40 dB 11. John, I'm Only Dancing Again.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 11
Official DR value: DR10


Here is the EAC log:


Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 3 from 29. August 2011

EAC extraction logfile from 24. October 2012, 13:16

David Bowie / Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1/15/97]

Used drive : TSSTcorpCD/DVDW TS-H652D Adapter: 2 ID: 0

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 6
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : Yes
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Appended to previous track




TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 5:16.00 | 0 | 23699
2 | 5:16.00 | 4:48.50 | 23700 | 45349
3 | 10:04.50 | 5:49.25 | 45350 | 71549
4 | 15:54.00 | 4:21.00 | 71550 | 91124
5 | 20:15.00 | 6:35.12 | 91125 | 120761
6 | 26:50.12 | 4:32.25 | 120762 | 141186
7 | 31:22.37 | 5:08.38 | 141187 | 164324
8 | 36:31.00 | 4:20.00 | 164325 | 183824
9 | 40:51.00 | 4:39.00 | 183825 | 204749
10 | 45:30.00 | 6:30.00 | 204750 | 233999
11 | 52:00.00 | 6:58.15 | 234000 | 265364


Track 1

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\01. Young Americans.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 7.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC A34FD02A
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\02. Win.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.00

Peak level 82.6 %
Extraction speed 8.8 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 444AE7E6
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\03. Fascination.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 9.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC A115CD60
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\04. Right.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.05

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 10.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC B9B2D192
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\05. Somebody Up There Likes Me.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:04.58

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 11.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 424DE4CF
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\06. Across The Universe.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 11.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 715670EC
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\07. Can You Hear Me.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.57

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 12.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 01AF9962
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\08. Fame.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.48

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 12.7 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C9CCC37F
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\09. Who Can I Be Now.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.48

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 13.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 2F48AFED
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\10. It's Gonna Be Me.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.58

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 13.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 4199C6F4
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename C:\Multimedia\David Bowie\Young Americans [RCD 80140, CD Ref, 1,15,97]\11. John, I'm Only Dancing Again.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.46

Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 14.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC F06250EA
Track not present in AccurateRip database
Copy OK


None of the tracks are present in the AccurateRip database

No errors occurred

End of status report

---- CUETools DB Plugin V2.1.3

[CTDB TOCID: z64GScD2Rpo5lauE7eAG7D0btL8-] disk not present in database, Submit result: z64GScD2Rpo5lauE7eAG7D0btL8- has been uploaded

---


bab


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:13 pm
Default avatar
Posts: 1915Location: Bristol, UKJoined: 27th Dec, 2007
Exact Audio Copy V1.0 beta 1 from 15. November 2010

EAC extraction logfile from 24. October 2012, 22:08

David Bowie / Young Americans RCD 80140

Used drive : Optiarc BD RW BD-5750H Adapter: 0 ID: 1

Read mode : Secure
Utilize accurate stream : Yes
Defeat audio cache : No
Make use of C2 pointers : No

Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Null samples used in CRC calculations : No
Used interface : Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000
Gap handling : Not detected, thus appended to previous track

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
Sample format : 44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo


TOC of the extracted CD

Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 0:00.00 | 5:16.00 | 0 | 23699
2 | 5:16.00 | 4:48.37 | 23700 | 45336
3 | 10:04.37 | 5:49.38 | 45337 | 71549
4 | 15:54.00 | 4:21.00 | 71550 | 91124
5 | 20:15.00 | 6:35.00 | 91125 | 120749
6 | 26:50.00 | 4:32.37 | 120750 | 141186
7 | 31:22.37 | 5:08.38 | 141187 | 164324
8 | 36:31.00 | 4:20.00 | 164325 | 183824
9 | 40:51.00 | 4:39.00 | 183825 | 204749
10 | 45:30.00 | 6:30.00 | 204750 | 233999
11 | 52:00.00 | 6:58.07 | 234000 | 265356


Track 1

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_01_Young Americans.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 9.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 1E8FB29C
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [501BD7BF]
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_02_Win.wav

Peak level 89.2 %
Extraction speed 11.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 46110642
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [4738A7A2]
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_03_Fascination.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 13.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC D89875E5
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [008F277E]
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_04_Right.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 14.3 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC CD25E6E5
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [2B1CA3FA]
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_05_Somebody Up There Likes Me.wav

Peak level 98.3 %
Extraction speed 15.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC E495D824
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [E5B8EFD4]
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_06_Across The Universe.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 16.5 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC CA352FBF
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [DB7C8DB3]
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_07_Can You Hear Me.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 17.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 33D2BDB1
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [0EC258E2]
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_08_Fame.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 18.1 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC EE9409B8
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [6E4681F7]
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_09_Who Can I Be Now (Previously Unreleased 1974).wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 18.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC AEF589FF
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [4640FF5B]
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_10_It's Gonna Be Me (Previously Unreleased 1974).wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Extraction speed 19.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 76CE7857
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [A0BEA38E]
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename C:\Users\Alan\Desktop\Young Americans\David Bowie_Young Americans_11_John, I'm Only Dancing Again (Previously Unreleased 1974).wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Extraction speed 20.6 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 68536469
Accurately ripped (confidence 5) [7A297839]
Copy OK


All tracks accurately ripped

No errors occurred

End of status report

_________________
Alan


offline
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:13 am
User avatarPosts: 1896Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
bab wrote:
I purchased the first Young Americans AU20 CD-R Master (1/15/97), which supposedly went unreleased. The seller believes the second AU20 CD-R Master (2/97) was used in the final release.

track times are the same so i wouldn't expect to find any unheard versions, but if you'd be willing to upload one (lossless) track for an A/B, drop me a line.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:48 pm
Default avatar
Posts: 15Joined: 28th Mar, 2008
Beckenhem and I did some comparing and found that 1 only two tracks (YA and Fame) on the 1/97 and 2/97 masters were exactly the same. (Thanks, beckenhem!)

I contacted Toby Mountain to see if he knew why the 1/97 master went unused. With his permission, I'm posting a copy of our correspondance.

bab

---

On Oct 26, 2012, at 1:55 PM, Brian Baker wrote:

Hi Toby,

I recently acquired a reference CD that you made for the AU20 David Bowie Young Americans release dated 1/15/1997. This was apparently the first of 2 CDs that you mastered for this particular release. The first master wasn't used. Apparently you created a second master in February 1997 that was used for the final release. Do you happen to remember why the first master wasn't used?

Thanks,

Brian Baker

---

On Oct 30, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Toby Mountain wrote:

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your email...That goes way back before we even archived email communications...

I looked over the cue sheet and it looks like for the second one (production master) I used a slightly improved version of the Sony SBM (Super Bit Mapping). Sony was always tweaking it back then. The album was transferred using the best 20 bit converters we had (Troisi) and needed the SBM dithering for the 16 bit CD.

There were two other noticeable things:

1) I used the same version of "Young Americans" and "Fame" that appeared on "Changes Bowie" (Ryko 80171 - an earlier CD release ).

2) Both sides (tapes) were Dolby A, but the source for side 2 of the album was marked "Dolby A, Protection Copy." Apparently the master was not available. But as I remember, the safety still sounded pretty good.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need any more information.

Best regards,

Toby Mountain


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:21 pm
Default avatar
Posts: 15Joined: 28th Mar, 2008
Beckenhem and I spent some time comparing, re-comparing, and re-re-comparing the tracks on the 1/97 (Unreleased) AU20 master, the 2/97 (Released) AU20 master, and the AU20 ChangesBowie master. Time-consuming (and maybe not of any interest to anyone else), but here are our findings. (We used Audacity to do the comparison - PM me if you want to know our methodology).

1) Young Americans is exactly the same on all three masters.
2) Fame is exactly the same on the Released and Unreleased YA AU20 masters. The version on ChangesBowie AU20 is from a different master.
3) Who Can I Be Now, It's Gonna Be Me, and JIODA are exactly the same on the Released and Unreleased YA AU20 masters.
4) Win, Fascination, Right, Somebody Up There Likes Me, Across the Universe, and Can You Hear Me are unique between the Released and Unreleased YA AU20 masters.

bab


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