There is no pianist visible in the Cleveland footage. Interestingly, though, one of the short film segments is of the rarely-performed 'This Boy'.

Would love to source this film digitally. Only ever located optical transfer.

Perhaps the new Ronno doc will include this and a number of other Ziggy gigs - I've suggested that it would be much appreciated if the DVD release could feature those clips in full as bonus material, well if you don't ask...... (I suppose the bottom line depends on how much Golden Years / MainMan ask for the rights to these films)

Golden Years/MainMan don't own that footage. Not sure that they own any footage? I'm not even sure they exist as a company any more? The material used for the ZS promo and the Rainbow mini-doc thing they put together is all owned by Mick Rock. The Cleveland footage is in private ownership.

it was just a guess ,

I know for sure that they own the Rainbow 'Hype' tape, not sure where it now resides though...

What's the Rainbow 'Hype' tape? Do you mean the 16mm footage of The Hype at the Roundhouse? If so, that's still in the ownership of the two guys who shot it.

Just to get back onto the thread for a mo (my fault I know) I contacted Mike Garson today re piano duties and LOM, this is what Mike said on the subject:

"I joined the band in early 72, on all the American Ziggy tours I played 'Life on Mars' and also in the ziggy movie." - Mike Garson 8/Jan/2009


(Jeez, where did I get the Rainbow from) I'll have too dig out the source of my info (The BBC I'm almost certain), I did wonder/question at the time of telling how DeFries managed to get hold of it.

The two chaps you mention, they wouldn't be from Beckenham by any chance?

.

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying The Hype played the Rainbow and there's footage of it? I'm not aware of ANY appearance by The Hype at the Rainbow and I'm only aware of footage existing from the second Roundhouse gig. That footage (22 minutes 16mm silent colour) is owned by the two people who shot it and Bowie has a copy (which I presume is where the clips for the documentary came from).

I'm not sure where DeFries comes into any of this?

As far as Mike Garson is concerned, I fear his memory might not be working 100 per cent perfectly. Understandable given the time and adventures that have passed! For one thing, he says he joined in early 1972. He joined in late September. For another, contemporaneous reports of the Boston gig state that Ronson plays piano on 'Life On Mars?' And if you listen to either the officially-released track or the bootleg, there is no guitar. If Mike Garson were playing on it, why would Mick Ronson suddenly stop playing guitar?

Finally, Life On Mars? was not played at the Hammersmith gig.

Being in a rush and only having a chance to dip in and out of this forum I incorrectly typed Rainbow, hence the 'Jeez, where did I get the Rainbow from' comment. (what clips for what documentary?)

Life On Mars: If the guy who played piano says he played piano - throughout, then that’s good enough for me, if the guy who attended every Ziggy gig (Will) says he never saw Ronno play the piano live, that's also good enough for me, if someone could produce a photograph showing Ronno playing the piano during a Ziggy gig then maybe, just maybe......... (not sure why a lack of Ronno's guitar equates to him suddenly taking up the piano when he'd never done so in the past. That LP custom took a hammering (numerous repairs, headstock for example), hence pictures of him playing another LP around this time) could that be a reason?

As for everyone having a poor memory of these events and times (accept it seems, for music journalists - (why do they take tape recorders everywhere?)) I can only say that having spent years working on the road myself just after this period, my memories in not to bad a state, and so the musicians I worked with.

DeFries = MainMan

Mike didn't say he played LOM during the Hammersmith gig - just that he played that gig - I'm surprised he remembered.

OK, a couple of supplementary points:

1) What documentary? The one with the Hype clips in it! The source of all circulating clips of The Hype.
2) Will didn't attend every Ziggy gig.
3) Who says Ronno hadn't played piano previously? I wouldn't rule it out.
4) I'm not saying a music journalist would have a better memory than anybody else, of course. What I am saying is they would have reported on events AT THE TIME. Written word accounts should carry some validity, particularly over hazy memories.
5) DeFries did equate to MainMan. But not the MainMan label responsible for those reissues and the promo videos compiled from Mick Rock footage, which is what I think you're referring to.
6) If Mike and Will's recollections are good enough for you, that's great. But I prefer full independent research. If that IS Mike Garson playing piano, I'd still think it rather weird that a) Mick Ronson decided not to play guitar for that one song and b) a reviewer chose to make reference to Ronno putting down his guitar and playing piano during THAT VERY SONG. I don't buy that there could have been guitar problems. Something would be audible on the tape and, besides, there would have been spares.
7) I'm not really sure why, on previous posts, you've been swift to denounce the Mike Garson credit on the official CD yet now you have changed your mind. Have you come up with new evidence?
Going back to the journalist, I'm not certain if he would have taken a tape recorder everywhere - but it's quite likely. At the very least, he would have taken contemporaneous notes. Ever wondered why the Ziggy gigs that have circulated on tape seem to be the ones that were heavily attended by reviewers? It's a theory...
9) According to your quote, Mike thinks he played Life On Mars? at Hammersmith.

full qoute from Mike G, "on all the american ziggy tour i played life on mars and also in the ziggy movie thats me.
perhaps mick played it in europe before i joined the band in early 72
mike" - I feel he is not refering to him playing LOM, simply that its him in the movie.

Can't see where I ever denouced Mike G playing piano.

Your original quote was: "I joined the band in early 72, on all the American Ziggy tours I played 'Life on Mars' and also in the ziggy movie." - Mike Garson 8/Jan/2009

Which has a very different meaning!

I think the Lifes out of this thread never mind Mars.

In today's BowieNet news item there is a review of the warm-up show in Aylesbury 29-01-72:
http://www.davidbowie.com/news/index.php?id=20090404



...so it does seem there is a good chance Mick Ronson at least played piano on Life On Mars until a piano player was added to the band. Maybe he reprised this later on for one or more shows?

you mention footage from Cleveland 72?? Is this in fan circulation as i am a serious collector of Bowie footge and have not come acroos this, can anyone shed any light???

Would love to see this so much!!!

Yes it is in circulation. I have it on DVD somewhere - 4,5 minutes of silent 8mm footage. Optical transfer though.

There are some screenshots on the cover of the 8mm Ziggy VCD:
http://www.mindwarppavilion.org/cpg/dis ... -5954.html