There's a fair bit of discussion on the net about the variations in sound on the Ziggy LP, and the use of the US master tape for all CD issues as well as the 40th anniversary LP. Original producer Ken Scott has commented on the Steve Hoffman forum that the master tape used for the 40th anniversary is the one that he, MainMan, David and RCA signed off on. This topic seeks to identify the possible location of the "missing master" - the one used in the UK, which is different to the US master.

Whilst the UK RCA LP contained the loud (morse code) mix of Starman, most of those around the world used the version provided by the parent company in the US - the soft version, either remastering from US tapes or stamping from US plates.

According to all reports the UK LP continued to use the loud version throughout its life on RCA, even on the budget RCA International reissue.

At the same time most countries around the world used the loud version on the single.

Most of this information can be confirmed by examining the matrix numbers (the numbers next to the catalogue number on the label).

In the instance of the albums either side of Ziggy, for both Hunky Dory and Aladdin Sane the UK and US share the same matrix numbers - the LP was prepared from the same tape (or at least a generational copy for one of the territories). (APRS 5947/8 for Hunky Dory, CPRS 4543/4 for Aladdin Sane). In both instances the US catalogue number also appears on the UK label.

For Ziggy though the situation is different. The UK matrix numbers are BGBS 0864/5, the US ones are APRS 6814/5. The differences in the matrix numbers record that the UK issue was not prepared from the same tape as the "master tape" kept at RCA headquarters in the US and provided to RCA affiliates throughout the world.

The same differences apply to the Starman/Suffragette CIty 45 - the matrix numbers are different. The UK is BGBS 0904 / BGBS 0905 and the US BKPS 5767 / BKPS 4571.

The matrix numbers of the Starman 45 are very telling though. The UK has consecutive numbers, the US numbers are far apart, though Suffragette City on the 45 shares the same matrix numbers as the US LP version as prepared by Trident.

Starman (on the 45) is a much later number, and as revealed by the images of the tape boxes as included on the 30th Anniversary edition, is different from the LP version numbers. The matrix numbers have the following sequence: Suffragette City (US LP & 45), Starman (US LP), Starman (US 45). Unlike the earlier 45 Changes/Andy Warhol the UK master for the Starman 45 does not come from the US master tape, but indicate that the UK single was prepared both at another time and probably elsewhere.

(After The Jean Genie It was not until the mid to late 70's that UK & US Bowie 45's once again originated from the same master.)

Using the same logic for the LP suggests that the UK LP was prepared from a different tape, and not the same tape as the US , or a copy of the US tape. It is possible that the UK was prepared from either the master tape (or a copy of it) prior to it being sent to the US for worldwide production.

This theory is supported by the fact that the US master ( and hence all US master tape derived copies - LPs and CDs) have tape faults, whereas the UK RCA LP's don't.

Given all the above, and the fact that record companies are renown for remixing/re-equalising songs for singles to give them more "punch", it is my opinion that the inclusion of the loud mix of Starman on the UK LP was a decision taken by someone in England, probably at RCA - to put the single version on the LP, rather than keeping the soft, approved version.

So, the missing UK master - where is it?

As recent (!) as 1980/1 RCA England still had the tape, as it was used for remastering the RCA International LP, and any other issues that stemmed from the UK budget issue. It had also been used for remastering the mid 70's UK LP's - with the scratched rather than stamped matrices. The US issues used the same (US tape version) master throughout the RCA period, as can be seen in the dead wax.

Did RCA England return the UK tape to Bowie? - only the parties or staff involved would know, but there's lots of people who'd like to find out.

Just a (very long) footnote for those who have deciphered the matrix numbers.

According to RCA protocol (see Keith Flynn's Elvis Presley pages on matrix numbers http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-sessions/matrix-numbers/matrixnumbersexplained.html the US Ziggy LP was mastered in 1971, the UK in 1972. Obviously not possible, as the album wasn't finished until 1972, though it raises some interesting questions:

Was the US master tape prepared in 71 and then had some substitutions, or was the matrix number incorrectly assigned?

The following image of the UK Trident studios tape box appears in the 30th Anniversary CD, provides the answer: it has the original 1971 matrix code (APRS) as was used on the US LP and is dated February 9, 1972. As mentioned in the original post, the UK LP has a different, later matrix.




The matrix numbers and songs are (or at least appear to be):

APRS 6814 - 3 (meaning the 3rd version) (appears on side one box only, though box 2 says same as side 1. The side two matrix number (APRS 6815) does not appear on either box.

Side 1:

Five Years APC6 - 6816
Soul Love APC6 - 6817
Moonage Daydream APC6 - 6818
(indecipherable, but track is Around and Around) APC6 - 6819, crossed out and replaced by Starman BPC6 - 4573
It Ain't Easy BPC6 - 4570

There is an arrow from the crossed out track 4, with the following information

Round 'n' Round APC6 - 6519 ( which is a transcription error - 6519 / 6819)

followed by a note, which seems to read:
to 2(circled) .......(send?) of reel. not part of the/this(?) album

Side 2:

Lady Stardust APC6 - 6826
Star APC6 - 6825
Hang on To Yourself APC6 - 6821
Ziggy Stardust APC6 - 6822
Suffragette City BPC6 - 4571
Rock 'n Roll Suicide BPC6 4522 ( most likely 4572, but is written more like a 2). The "A" and "D" in and are crossed out an replaced with a single apostrophe before the "N"

There is an arrow between Ziggy Stardust and Suffragette City leading to a note that says:
"remove leader for ?? (K?R?. P. or perhaps "C.D."), indicating that there is some leader tape prior to these last two songs, which have been mastered in 1972 ( "B" matrix code), the other 4 tracks on side 2 being mastered in 1971 ("A" matrix code).

For the first four tracks there is crossing out. It seems to be that someone absentmindedly used the same numbers as side one, then realised their mistake.

________________________________________________________________________

These matrix codes indicate :

The following tracks were mastered in 1971 for the album (APRS 6814/5), in this sequence:


Five Years APC6 - 6816
Soul Love APC6 - 6817
Moonage Daydream APC6 - 6818
Round 'n' Round APC6 - 6819 ( assuming transcription error)
Hang on To Yourself APC6 - 6821
Ziggy Stardust APC6 - 6822
Star APC6 - 6825
Lady Stardust APC6 - 6826

and in 1972:


It Ain't Easy BPC6 - 4570
Suffragette City BPC6 - 4571
Rock 'n Roll Suicide BPC6 4572 (assuming transcription error)
Starman BPC6 - 4573

________________________________________________________________________

The version of Suffragette CIty appears also on the US 45, and its derivatives, as it has the same number sequence (4571), the changes in the first four letters/numbers indicating a 7" record and either stereo (BPKS) or mono (BPKM) mastering.

The version of Starman is NOT the version that appears on the US 45 (matrix number BKPS 5767, nor on the UK 45, which supports the theory that there are in fact at least 3 different edits/mixes of the studio recording. The soft version of Starman was mastered approximately 1200 (total RCA) recordings (4573 - 5767) earlier than the loud 45 version.

It Ain't Easy, the Hunky Dory outtake was mastered in '72, and therefore was not intended for the album originally as the album had been prepared in 1971.

________________________________________________________________________


Mike Evans site 5years.com http://www.5years.com/outtakes.htm has a December 15, 1971 track list as follows:

Side One: ( with matrix numbers)

Five Years 6816
Soul Love 6817
Moonage Daydream 6818
Round and Round 6819
Port of Amsterdam 6820 ?

Side Two
Hang Onto Yourself 6821
Ziggy Stardust 6822
Velvet Goldmine 6823 ?
Holy Holy 6824 ?
Star 6825
Lady Stardust 6826

which perfectly correlates with the matrix numbers on the pictured tape boxes as indicated above.

________________________________________________________________________

The UK album matrix numbers BGBS 0864/5, indicate that the UK LP was mastered in early 1972 ( the "B" and the relatively low number of 0864).

At the top of this post I mentioned Keith Flynn's Elvis page about the RCA matrices. It doesn't have a code for "G" in the second position, but the third position "B" indicates that it is a label RCA distributed themselves, as opposed to a label RCA pressed for. In earlier days the "G" code stood for Gramophone (Recorded in England). I suspect that the UK by this time used the G for mastered in Great Britain, so the UK matrix code (BGBS) says: 1972 master, mastered in the UK, distributed by RCA, Stereo.

If these codes and the interpretations are to be relied on, then the US tape of Ziggy, incorporating the soft mix of Starman, which has been used for all CD's and the 2012 remasters is the original album as intended, though clearly the damage that occurred to the tape prior to or during the US mastering was not intended.

Thanks Colin, very interesting.

I can’t say I understand how studios work or how the reference numbers were allocated, but I’m struggling with the concept that the quiet mix was mastered before the loud mix. I’d always assumed that the quiet mix simply fades the Morse section found on the loud mix? If not, the original multi-track stems must also contain the loud Morse section?

According to the Trident tape boxes, which have have a matrix number that correlates with the US album, and not the UK one, the mix of Starman that appears on the US RCA LP (the quiet mix) was mastered about 1200 RCA recordings (all of RCA) before the US single was prepared. The US 45 contains the loud morse code, as does the UK, though the UK is not edited. Is the UK 45 an edit of the US 45 with the original intro - possibly, though I don't know, and can't check as my turntable is not set up.

How was the mix done - can't say without listening very closely to the recording - it was either done by mixing just that section up on the stereo master, which I highly doubt as it would have affected the start of the vocal line "there's a starman...., or by remixing from the multitracks, and just pushing those instruments up at that time. In either event it was done AFTER the album was finalised and sent to the US for worldwide distribution.

Remember, Ken Scott's recollection also aligns with the story the matrix numbers tell.


To assist with an understanding of the matrix numbers consider the Hunky Dory album and the Changes/Andy Warhol 45.

Using Chas Bowie singles site for Changes as a guide for the 45s and the IDBD for the LPs.

http://www.bowie-singles.com/UKRCA/Changes.html.

Both the UK and US have the same matrix numbers for the 45: APKM 5949 (Changes) and APKM 5956 (Andy Warhol), as do the LPs. UK: IdbD Ref#6762 US: IdbD Ref#6764

According to the Keith Flynn website mentioned in the earlier post

The A indicates 1971, the P, "popular", the K, a 7" record and the "M" mono. The numbers are sequential.

so for Hunky Dory
side 1 is APRS 5947
side 2 is APRS 5948,

and the tracks in sequential order are:

Changes APKM 5949
Oh You Pretty Things
Eight Line Poem
Life On Mars?
Kooks
Quicksand
Fill Your Heart
Andy Warhol APKM 5956
Song for Bob Dylan
Queen Bitch
The Bewlay Brothers

Notice how if you filled in the rest of the numbers in sequential order Andy Warhol would be correct, at 5956. ( Don't assume that Fill Your Heart is 5955, it might be Bombers, the original track for that position that had 5955, and Fill Your Heart some other number.)


So, for RCA at that time, an album when being mastered was given a matrix number for each side, followed by a sequential set of numbers for the tracks. In the case of Ziggy, the album was prepared in 1971 with a different track listing than what was finally released, though the original matrix numbers were retained ( album sides, and included songs), and this is why the numbers on the Ziggy Trident box are not in sequential order - because this was the third attempt at a running order. As pointed out in the earlier post the matrix numbers for 1971 ( those starting with "A") match the December 15 running order.

Part of the "proof" is Aladdin Sane. Whilst UK RCA started mastering Bowie 45's from their own tapes for a few years, the US and UK Aladdin Sane share the same matrix number CPRS 4543 and CPRS 4544, which indicates that the possibility of the UK using their own matrix system just for Ziggy and reverting to standard RCA practice for Aladdin is highly unlikely.

And CPRS? - C for 1973, P for Popular, R for 12" record, and S for stereo. the number 4543 indicates that there were 4542 numbers allocated by RCA already in 1973.

Am I suggesting that the UK Ziggy album is a different mix or recording from the US (and general worldwide) master? - No (apart from Starman that is). Just that, unlike Hunky Dory before and Aladdin Sane afterwards, the UK RCA issues do not have the same "pedigree / lineage" as most others. Not better, not worse, just different.

Not trying to burst any bubbles, just trying to get the accurate story.

BTW there's an interesting story about Velvet Goldmine hidden in the matrix numbers for the Ziggy LP. I'll leave that for another day.

Many apologies Colin, I really am struggling with this. The only facts I’ve identified in this thread are:

1. The UK and US had different master tapes for the album.
2. The first US master was prepared in 1971, before Starman was recorded, and updated in 1972.
3. The UK master was prepared in 1972, (possibly) after Starman was recorded.
4. The UK studio reference number for the quiet Starman is BPC6 – 4573.
5. The US single edit was mastered after the US album version.

What have I missed that tells us the quiet mix was the original and intended mix?

Hi Alan,

Apology accepted, though not needed.

Apart from a typo on point 4 ( it was the US studio reference number ( the matrix number), not the UK, a minor change to your points

1. What you have said is correct, though as a subtle point they both stemmed from the tape provided to RCA in the US, though the UK decided not to go with the US format and do their own thing. RCA UK would most likely have taken a safety copy of the US bound tape, but there is absolutely no evidence that Trident prepared the loud mix as part of the finished album - just the opposite.

2. The first master tape was prepared in 1971 and numbers were allocated by US RCA for both the sides and the individual songs.


The Completed album as per the Trident UK tape boxes shares the same Matrix number as the US LP, and not the UK. What Trident prepared was the quiet mix.

The loud mix that appeared on the US single was prepared approximately 1200 RCA references numbers later, and an examination of the UK and US loud mixes will inform whether or not they come from the same source (ie either the US single has a few second edited out of the prepared loud master, or the UK loud mix involves a slight edit of the US loud mix with the US soft mix intro, or the UK loud mix was prepared separately).

The other piece of the puzzle is Ken Scott - who is quoted some time back (see Ken Scott news in the forum) as saying he has no recollection of doing a second mix of Starman, and more recently saying that the mix that was modelled for the 2012 remaster is the mix they (DB, KS, MainMan and RCA) signed off on. The fact that Ken's recollection ties in with the story told by the matrix numbers is compelling.

Remember it was apparently Dennis Katz from RCA that requested a hit single, and in that context it is easy to accept that the original Trident mix, the soft mix, just needed a little extra - the loud morse code.

Alan, and others who may have some difficulty with this scenario - work the matrix numbers facts, the Ken Scott recollection, the later date for remixing in the US to create a loud mix, and see how that sits with the idea that the loud mix was the intended version.

The truth be told, I wasn't there, and can't be 100% certain. It's just to my eyes and ears a much more likely scenario.

It is possible I suppose that there was a second master tape prepared by Trident at the same time, with a different mix of Starman. For this scenario to be the case the following would be the case:

Trident prepares two master tapes, with a variation on side 1 ( the loud mix of Starman)
Ken Scott later forgets about the two masters prepared
Trident ships the US master to the US, and the UK to the RCA UK, but does not provide a copy of the UK master to the US.
Sometime later, though before release, RCA US decides it wants the 45 of Starman to be punchy, and either unaware and/or not holding a copy of the UK mix does not ask for the UK mix to be shipped to the US
RCA US creates or requests Trident to prepare, a loud mix, either going back to the multi tracks ( held by ?) or just using the stereo tracks, which by coincidence has the middle section mixed the same as the UK mix. (The much later matrix number for the US 45 suggests, though not absolute, this loud mix is not the same as prepared by Trident when the UK loud mix is prepared)
RCA US allocates this mix a matrix number, about 1200 recordings after the soft mix of Starman was mastered.

To me, this just doesn't seem a likely scenario, and given a scenario that fits all the pieces, except long held beliefs, is why I dismissed it.

I think this is probably where our opinions diverge. I can’t dismiss other scenarios (yet) and I don't agree that the matrix numbers are compelling evidence. Then again, perhaps it’s just because I’m a stubborn Brit and I'm reluctant to accept that the original UK album isn’t the definitive Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust

Not being a Brit, and having been confused by all the info and releases that people are comparing, I feel this is a rather compelling argument. Well done! I look forward to reading your Velvet Goldmine story.

Hi all,

Just seeking clarification of a point regarding the audio flaw during Suffragette City on the Ziggy Stardust album and the "morse code" section on Starman.

Belway Brother writes during the initial entry for The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars that:


IdbD Ref#6616

I would very much like to know the exact point in time the term "since" applies to? Is the tape drop out in Suffragette City absent since early UK pressings? Are the copies with the -6E/-4E matrices the last to not include the tape drop out in Suffragette City?

In a nutshell:

1. When were the pressings with the tape drop out in Suffragette City published and then no longer published?
2. When did pressings of the The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars cease to incorporate the original single mix with the loud "morse code" section that leads into the chorus of Starman? Which edition?

I realise Colin also mentions above in this thread that:



So, were there any RCA UK pressings without the loud "morse code" version of Starman?

Hope I did not miss something in reading the descriptions.

By the way, the incredible detail set out by Bewlay Brother in those entries for The Rise And Fall Of Ziggy Stardust And The Spiders From Mars is something to behold. Many thanks.

Cheers, John

hi john,

i'm sure lars won't mind me answering on his behalf as it was i who sneaked that info into his description back in the good ol' days when i was moderator and didn't think twice about such meddling!

in the case of the suffragette city drop out, my use of the word "since" was too general a term as the drop out appeared simultaneously in '72 in other parts of the world. i am still to own an original US copy, but i'm certain that the drop out appears on every non-UK copy i own. it definitely appears on the first japanese and german issues and on (i think) all non-UK singles (b-side to Starman initially, and later as an a-side - although even the UK '76 a-side now uses the tape with the drop out, despite it promoting ChangesOneBowie where the non drop out version is found). the drop out has been fixed on the current 40th anniversary Ziggy master but this is either a bit of clever tape surgery or the claims this is an all analog pressing are untrue and some digital tweaking has taken place. in either case i'm convinced it is sourced from a tape with the drop out.

as for Starman, and again without hearing a first US issue, i think the loud mix exists only on UK LPs and a handful of singles. it's on the US single but that was in mono and has an edited intro (the Canadian single is stereo but again with the edit). but it appears to be found on ALL UK LPs of ZS except the 1990 Ryko/EMI reissue and EMI 1997. these and the Ziggy 40th use the quiet mix.

hope that helps...?

The first issue US LP has the original LP version of Starman - the quiet version. (I have one. The US Ziggy uses the same master for its RCA life ( though different stampers).

As stated in the earlier posts the UK RCA LP was switched to contain the single mix prior to release, and was that way from its first incarnation - ie it never received the quiet version.

The book "Any Day Now" sheds additional light on Starman on pages 242 and 246. (February 2nd & 4th, March 26).

February 2: "Starman" replaces "Round and Round" in running order

February 4: More takes of 3 tracks including Starman. The released version of Starman is recorded on the 4th February.

March 26: The following day (ie March 27), David, Mick Ronson and Ken Scott work together on the remix of Starman for the single release.

Ken Scott's recollection is that he only worked on the one version of Starman - the same that was released on the 40th (Ie the quiet one). So either Ken Scott's memory has failed on this one, or Kevin Cann's book is wrong on this point and Ken Scott was not involved in the remix.

Either way the single is a remix that for reasons unknown also made the UK LP.

Ken Scott freely admits to forgetting many sessions in his book and he does make other errors (e.g. he claims the original Jean Genie single was mono), so it isn't unreasonable to assume he simply forgot this session from 40 years ago.

i'd go further than this and suggest the UK LP was assembled from a tape not used anywhere else, if only for the combination of the loud Starman and non drop out on Suffragette City.

I don't know if the non-dropout turned up elsewhere, but the Starman loud mix was also used on LPs in Argentina, France and Italy.

Here

Matt, this was exactly my contention in the very first post, reproduced in part.



**********

Now we agree about Starman let's move on to firming the understanding that the US Mercury Mick Weller cartoon cover for The Man Who Sold the World is the original, as intended front cover for the LP, albeit with a changed title.

Again Kevin Cann's book sheds more light on this pg 198, November 4, 1970. The text also sheds light on the oft quoted (mis)belief that the US cover was changed from the cover that later appeared in the UK. (But that's for another post topic)

i'm fairly certain they are all in reference to the singles in those territories - i.e. "album" = album version. i'm going to have to dig out the LPs i have and see if i can find any with the loud mix of Starman... and obviously then check if they have the drop out on Suffragette City too.

the only other thing i can add that may shed some light is that the loud mix of Starman and Suffragette City (without drop out) have appeared on compilations (ChangesOneBowie UK and various configurations of Best Of Bowie). it's therefore possible that standalone tapes of these two tracks still exist. what tape for instance was used for the RSD Starman single (it's the loud mix)?