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PostPosted: 15th Jul 2009, 3:31 pm  
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Site AdminPosts: 1209Location: UitgeestJoined: 27th Dec, 2006
In the mid-90s, Greg Vandike supposedly unearthed a small stack of previously unknown picture sleeves for the original UK 1969 Philips issue of Space Oddity. These were sold for large sums of money. Subsequently the UK sleeve reached the pages of Record Collector as one of the rarest Bowie items. Some time later Vandike started selling dubious 'second editions' of the same sleeve, but long before that people had expressed their doubt about the validity of the picture sleeve.

I think it would be interesting to discuss this item. Here are two images of it, courtesy of John Larkin.
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This is a thumbnail + UK-Space-Oddity-front.jpg
UK-Space-Oddity-front.jpg [ 331.72 KiB | Viewed 25479 times ]

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This is a thumbnail + UK-Space-Oddity-reverse.jpg
UK-Space-Oddity-reverse.jpg [ 176.18 KiB | Viewed 25479 times ]



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PostPosted: 15th Jul 2009, 4:33 pm  
User avatarPosts: 451Location: AustraliaJoined: 28th Dec, 2007
Thanks Ruud. I obtained that copy years back from a friend in Manchester. In the mid 1990s. I did not pay a huge amount. It did not send me broke. It was part of a group of singles that included the Netherlands PS issue of Love You Till Tuesday for example. I will contact the seller regarding the providence. There are two versions of the sleeve as Ruud indicated. One is matte in appearance and the other more satin in look and feel if that makes any sense.

I do wonder about its authenticity at times. One thing that makes me think it is contrived is the fact that the sleeve is uncluttered. There is very little detail on the sleeve. I know some European sleeves had very uncluttered, plain designs on the reverse of the sleeve yet, and please correct me if I am wrong, yet British picture sleeves had more details. It would be good to track down a UK Philips PS for another artist from the same era and compare the sleeves.


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PostPosted: 16th Jul 2009, 2:47 pm  
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John, I've been told that UK Philips picture sleeves (for any artist) were non-existing in that era. However, apparently some Dutch stereo copies were imported into the UK according to Marshall's book, so the sleeves could have been printed for those. In this very unlikely scenario, they should not be labeled as UK sleeves.

On the down side: the seller seemed to have access to an unlimited stack of Plymouth 1972 concert posters. If he could get these replica (sold as genuine BTW...) printed, why not a pile of sleeves?

Finally the story about its discovery seems almost too good to be true. An ex-Philips employee discovers a box of rare demos plus those picture sleeves. This is what, 25 years after it was released?


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PostPosted: 22nd Jul 2009, 5:32 am  
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For what it's worth, I bought quite a lot of stuff over the years from Greg Vandike (including a Space Oddity sleeve), and always believed that it was genuine. He had been active in the music business in the 1960s, from when most of his stuff dated. Having said that, the sleeve hs so little on it, it wouldn't have been hard to fake!

Before he died, he still had some amazing stuff on his website - I didn't wish to sound mercenary(!), but does anyone know what happened to it all?


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PostPosted: 22nd Jul 2009, 6:40 am  
User avatarPosts: 451Location: AustraliaJoined: 28th Dec, 2007
Greg Vandike did have a great list of items on his site. I never met him.


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PostPosted: 22nd Jul 2009, 2:51 pm  
User avatarPosts: 2910Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
i sold some things to him many years ago. his reputation among other record dealers was not good. he was regarded in a similar way to a recently discussed ebay seller... he had some amazing items but he was also a blatant crook and seemed to have little in the way of integrity or remorse.


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PostPosted: 21st Oct 2009, 9:49 am  
User avatarPosts: 2910Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
i'd recommend everyone with the new SO40 take a look at the advertising for the single on pages 17 (centre) and 21. note the use of Times Roman italic font, the black and white photos and position of PHILIPS logo. then look at page 22, the back cover of the netherlands single for position of text and again the PHILIPS logo.

generous theory: the consistency of design elements across the advertising campaign and disputed UK picture sleeve suggest a harmony of ideas to promote the record.

cynical theory: crop the black and white image from the ad and place typography (using one of the most commonly available fonts known to man) in accordance with existing advertising and foreign picture sleeve. hey presto! a previously unknown UK picture sleeve with which to entice big spending fans.


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PostPosted: 21st Oct 2009, 1:30 pm  
User avatarPosts: 2910Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
and then, consider this...

UK single released 11.07.69.
picture on cover of disputed UK single taken 25.08.69.
single re-enters chart 20.09.69.

this tells us the cover couldn't possibly have been made for the original issue. it can only have been made once the single was available, so was there a second pressing or were the sleeves only intended for copies not yet distributed? was it a promo-only sleeve? was it a 1969 mock-up that was duplicated years later or was it simply a scam?

had it been a full colour cover with more intricate graphics i'd be less suspicious, but i think it's a fake or, at best, a later duplication of a genuine promo or mock-up sleeve.


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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 7:52 am  
User avatarPosts: 47Joined: 28th Jun, 2009
Excellent discussion, very interesting indeed.

Yes, there are two variations of this PS:

- The first one feels really authentic when you have it in hands (apparently the one illustrated by John), non glossy, textured and relatively think cover, professional printing etc. The one I came across came directly from a former Philips engineer in the UK (or maybe his son after the guy passed away, I would need to check), and I really believe this is a true story (he also had other genuine stuff in the batch). I think it has the issued record with push-out centror and "MONO" labels. John, is yours also with this 7"?

- The second one, a real fake, garage-made by Greg in the 90's, he told me having made approx. 100 from an original, and he was selling those at 100£ (good monney). This one is on very thin paper, poor quality, you will have no doubty when you have it in hands. It was sold as "cover only" with no recrod (even if it would be easy to find a record to insert in there). I could post a scan to make the difference if you like. Vandike also re-printed the Plymouth poster that still shows up regulyrly on Ebay, probably copies in most cases.

The story seems to be the following: This was a kind of proof or mock-up cover (as for the originally unreleased Station LP) that was withdrawn and never sold. I was told 100 were printed as a test and to evaluate internally the idea. This may also explain why there is very little writing on the cover.

It seems maybe 3-5 copies escaped destruction, through Philips employees (as usual in such cases)...


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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 8:17 am  
User avatarPosts: 2910Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
very useful post, thank you.

i think having copies in your hands adds an essential ingredient to an already plausible story. very easy for me to put 2 and 2 together and cry "fake" but without seeing the sleeve it'll only ever be a guess. there are things to look for that can help authenticate any sleeve but only if you HAVE the sleeve.

i still have to question whether philips would go to the trouble of printing a sleeve AFTER the record had been distributed, but they DID use the photographs to re-promote the single (and very successfully too), so it's quite possible the idea of a picture sleeve was touted as a potential lure to customers. and it's just as likely that by the time the mock-up or promo sleeves were ready, the record had started to climb the charts rendering the sleeve unnecessary.

had it been a bona fide promo sleeve you'd think its existence would be more widely known, so if it is real then it's probably safe to deduce that it didn't make it beyond an internal test run. this theory makes the most sense given the number that found their way out of philips.

anyone who bought from van dyke can safely and sadly dismiss it as a fake.

bipbip... scans would be very welcome!


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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 1:16 pm  
User avatarPosts: 47Joined: 28th Jun, 2009
This one has a textured (non-glossy) cover made of heavier cardstock (as was usual in the late 60s for example for German or Dutch pressings). It has a much with higher contrast and the background is not pure white, sligthly beige. The inner flap to paste the cover is roughly 10 mm, which is usual. All looks preofessional quality and authentic (it is an "old" cover).
Attachments:
DB Space Oddity Original UK PS Back.jpg
DB Space Oddity Original UK PS Back.jpg [ 35.38 KiB | Viewed 27621 times ]

DB Space Oddity Original UK PS Front.jpg
DB Space Oddity Original UK PS Front.jpg [ 46.04 KiB | Viewed 27621 times ]

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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 1:27 pm  
User avatarPosts: 47Joined: 28th Jun, 2009
And here is the other one, say by a world renown "Garage-Productions" company that make so many collectors happy around the world:

Thin paper on pure white background, poos printing quality and the inner flap is almost 2 cm (at least on this copy) and is pasted on the front side of the cover (unusual, righ?). The paper is not flat, most likely because it is hand made and thus not perfectly aligned when pasted and thuse giving a slightly corrugated aspect. Also on the front side, the background color is very slightly purple...

PS: I just checked: the cardboard of the original one above is a bit heavier than German/Dutch Philips from these times.


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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 1:37 pm  
User avatarPosts: 47Joined: 28th Jun, 2009
And here the attachments...
Attachment:
DB Space Oddity UK Fake Front.jpg
DB Space Oddity UK Fake Front.jpg [ 99.54 KiB | Viewed 27625 times ]

Attachment:
DB Space Oddity UK Fake Back.jpg
DB Space Oddity UK Fake Back.jpg [ 58.13 KiB | Viewed 27625 times ]



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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 1:43 pm  
User avatarPosts: 2910Location: takasaki, japanJoined: 28th May, 2008
well, i'm convinced. one question... is the counterfeit scan the complete cover? i.e. has it been cropped on the scanner?


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PostPosted: 24th Oct 2009, 1:53 pm  
User avatarPosts: 47Joined: 28th Jun, 2009
It is a complete scan, I even left a few mm on purpose. I can send you higher quality ones by Email if you like.


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